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the fork in the road
Thursday, March 18th, 2021 10:39 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hyojungssor: shipping as an expression of romantic ideals
recently i've been listening to the office ladies podcast, which is a rewatch of the office hosted by jenna fischer, who plays pam, and angela kinsey, who plays angela. throughout the episodes they really heavily analyze the jim and pam relationship and its progression throughout each season. for context, i originally watched the office in summer 2014 and have sporadically rewatched episodes since. listening to the podcast actually made me want to rewatch a lot more episodes but i won't go past season 2 because i don't want to pay for peacock and i have other things to do with my life! seriously!!
what they said really reminded me in ways of the anne/gilbert (anne of green gables [1]) narrative, which is kind of like guy likes this girl from the moment they meet, they become best friends because they just get each other, and the guy just spends ages liking her without actually telling her outright but it's deeply obvious and everyone around them knows it and expects them to get together. but the girl is in severe denial because of her own ideals. at this stage of the office pam is engaged to someone else who's much less attentive to her as a person and doesn't understand her as well, but she's been engaged to him for years so it's like, she doesn't have a reason to break it off. and she's SO excited about planning her wedding. anne is someone with rosy ideals about how romance is supposed to have mystique and be about flowery language and gentlemanly behavior. so as much as they love their best friends they just can't see them fitting into the idea of romance they already had so they get shut out. [2]
i wish i could remember which ep it was because now i can't look it up, but one of them said they think the reason jim and pam have such an appeal is because unlike a lot of other show couples it's not about instant or physical attraction and a lot of their early show moments aren't really physical because they can't be. and like anne/gilbert they're best friends and [tswift voice] no one gets your humor like i do. and they don't want to lose each other's friendship but one of them starts to want more than friendship and reaches the breaking point where they have to confess even though they know they're going to be rejected because they need their feelings to be known, and the girl is like YOU CAN'T DO THAT. what am i supposed to say to this. because it messes with how everything was lined up in her head: this is what friendship and camaraderie looks like, and then this is what romance looks like. they're not supposed to overlap.
anyways, not a direct parallel but that's what makes each relationship compelling in its own right; they're not carbon copies of each other, but there are deep thematic parallels that speak to me and are why i was so fond of each of their growing relationships. honestly, i used to (read: as a child/teenager) be a lot more in love with the idea of guy likes girl for ages she just can't see but now i really am wary of it because it creates this idea that girls don't know what they want, whereas the guy's desires will always be fulfilled and i don't like that at all. but i really like the depth given in these r/s: because in the end it's about the girl believing in something and overcoming her own obstacles (a lot which are ingrained because of societal ideas about love and marriage) and reaching out for what she wants. [3]
i think a subverting of this best friends -> lovers trope is jo/laurie from little women because jo really believed they were incompatible despite their friendship and ultimately wishes he'd ask again because despite the fact that she doesn't really feel she loves him: "i know that i care more to be loved. i want to be loved." and then laurie's "i have always loved you - but the love i feel for amy is different - you were right - we would have killed each other." and i like this too because i don't necessarily think that just because you get along well with someone it means that you're compatible romantically/as a couple. and like anne, jo is really held back by the ideas that she's been told about women and their role in society and how you need to be marriageable. anne really says if she doesn't find the perfect man she'll die an old maid! she won't settle!
while i am talking about all these great please don't pairings. <3 i have to talk about love too will ruin us (2yeon fic by naeildo) LOOOOL... please no one send this to sam she will clown me for 5000 years [4]... which is the only f/f on this list. it is also about knowing someone deeply, relying on each other, looking away while the other tries to pursue realistic romantic options, the play between being best friends and the fork in the road of romance. i think between this and the prev. three... all of them have legitimate reasons for not getting together but i see it all as internal conflict. however like i mentioned, although jim/pam does have the issue of the engagement ultimately you knew they'd be smooth sailing after that, and anne/gilbert everyone thought they'd get together, and i think jo and laurie would have been fine but like. central internal conflict of ltwru is jeongyeon being concerned that this would nvr work out because nayeon is an aspiring ACTRESS! public figure! and people will talk about them and it will truly affect her life forever and that is why jy can't pursue it at all. not because they're "not allowed to date" but because she doesn't want that active pursuit of romance at all to lead to such a terrible thing. i have to stop here
ultimately i think there's really something about knowing someone and truly being understood. [5] [parks and rec meme voice] IT'S ABOUT THE HISTORY. and it's ironic that these pairings also have so much to hide from each other. [oh my girl nonstop voice] there’s nothing we don’t know about each other / there’s no secrets between us too / we’ve seen everything / but I can’t ever tell you how I feel! because it also means either 1) the other person has never considered the subject as an option which is why it comes completely out of left field if they confess or 2) the other person CAN TELL because they literally know the subject that well.... i don't think pam knew (but partially b/c jim lied and said that he used to have a crush on her but it was over LOL) and anne absolutely knew about it and jo absolutely knew. (and jeongyeon knew but she was in severe denial too!)
footnotes:
[1] this is strictly based on the anne of green gables book series (#1-8) and not the anne with an e tv show, even though they overlap at the beginning. when i mention little women later that's based on greta gerwig's movie because i haven't read the books asdjkfkldlf
[2] this doesn't even mention the fact that anne hated gilbert when they first met because he teased her but he was otherwise a really nice person etc and she decided to be petty and hate him for like 5 years even after he saved her life or anyways helped her out of a very dangerous situation. but like anne was 11 at the time and i still kind of hate the scene where they meet because too many people irl say all that about "boy pulls on the girl's pigtails because he likes her" and it's so annoying. aogg is sort of tropey in certain ways but like i said it has a lot of depth so i can't explain it all in this type of essay without making it look bad TT anne is heroine of my heart, her pettiness, imaginative head, studious and loyal heart and MISGUIDED IDEALS make her so relatable to me. i just don't want these things to reflect back on portrayal of women because i care very much about the impacts of stereotyping t____t
[3] both anne/gilbert and jim/pam continue on long after they get together, and they're less interesting to me once the major conflict of all that is over, but something else that gets me about both of them is the idea of uprooting your lives and the place where you've lived for a long time in order to start anew with your family. it's absolutely not something i can relate to right now because i haven't left home yet but my family moved a lot in my youth leaving everyone else behind, and even if i end up moving for work i think i'll always be afraid of what i will lose doing that. but i think these are deep loves that make you feel like they're gaining so much more than what they lost.
[4] i cried for so long reading this for the first time. i cried rereading the anne books last march, i don't think i cried watching the jim/pam parts of the office or little women, but i probably cried a lot more for ltwru. and i wrote that obnoxiously long comment on the fic so if sam sees that i have written another essay she will simply laugh forever
[5] this is all highly related to this (access-locked) post re: what the relationship tropes i like says about me
other favorite movie/tv/book pairings that aren't that relevant but i still want 2 shout out:
recently i've been listening to the office ladies podcast, which is a rewatch of the office hosted by jenna fischer, who plays pam, and angela kinsey, who plays angela. throughout the episodes they really heavily analyze the jim and pam relationship and its progression throughout each season. for context, i originally watched the office in summer 2014 and have sporadically rewatched episodes since. listening to the podcast actually made me want to rewatch a lot more episodes but i won't go past season 2 because i don't want to pay for peacock and i have other things to do with my life! seriously!!
what they said really reminded me in ways of the anne/gilbert (anne of green gables [1]) narrative, which is kind of like guy likes this girl from the moment they meet, they become best friends because they just get each other, and the guy just spends ages liking her without actually telling her outright but it's deeply obvious and everyone around them knows it and expects them to get together. but the girl is in severe denial because of her own ideals. at this stage of the office pam is engaged to someone else who's much less attentive to her as a person and doesn't understand her as well, but she's been engaged to him for years so it's like, she doesn't have a reason to break it off. and she's SO excited about planning her wedding. anne is someone with rosy ideals about how romance is supposed to have mystique and be about flowery language and gentlemanly behavior. so as much as they love their best friends they just can't see them fitting into the idea of romance they already had so they get shut out. [2]
i wish i could remember which ep it was because now i can't look it up, but one of them said they think the reason jim and pam have such an appeal is because unlike a lot of other show couples it's not about instant or physical attraction and a lot of their early show moments aren't really physical because they can't be. and like anne/gilbert they're best friends and [tswift voice] no one gets your humor like i do. and they don't want to lose each other's friendship but one of them starts to want more than friendship and reaches the breaking point where they have to confess even though they know they're going to be rejected because they need their feelings to be known, and the girl is like YOU CAN'T DO THAT. what am i supposed to say to this. because it messes with how everything was lined up in her head: this is what friendship and camaraderie looks like, and then this is what romance looks like. they're not supposed to overlap.
anyways, not a direct parallel but that's what makes each relationship compelling in its own right; they're not carbon copies of each other, but there are deep thematic parallels that speak to me and are why i was so fond of each of their growing relationships. honestly, i used to (read: as a child/teenager) be a lot more in love with the idea of guy likes girl for ages she just can't see but now i really am wary of it because it creates this idea that girls don't know what they want, whereas the guy's desires will always be fulfilled and i don't like that at all. but i really like the depth given in these r/s: because in the end it's about the girl believing in something and overcoming her own obstacles (a lot which are ingrained because of societal ideas about love and marriage) and reaching out for what she wants. [3]
i think a subverting of this best friends -> lovers trope is jo/laurie from little women because jo really believed they were incompatible despite their friendship and ultimately wishes he'd ask again because despite the fact that she doesn't really feel she loves him: "i know that i care more to be loved. i want to be loved." and then laurie's "i have always loved you - but the love i feel for amy is different - you were right - we would have killed each other." and i like this too because i don't necessarily think that just because you get along well with someone it means that you're compatible romantically/as a couple. and like anne, jo is really held back by the ideas that she's been told about women and their role in society and how you need to be marriageable. anne really says if she doesn't find the perfect man she'll die an old maid! she won't settle!
while i am talking about all these great please don't pairings. <3 i have to talk about love too will ruin us (2yeon fic by naeildo) LOOOOL... please no one send this to sam she will clown me for 5000 years [4]... which is the only f/f on this list. it is also about knowing someone deeply, relying on each other, looking away while the other tries to pursue realistic romantic options, the play between being best friends and the fork in the road of romance. i think between this and the prev. three... all of them have legitimate reasons for not getting together but i see it all as internal conflict. however like i mentioned, although jim/pam does have the issue of the engagement ultimately you knew they'd be smooth sailing after that, and anne/gilbert everyone thought they'd get together, and i think jo and laurie would have been fine but like. central internal conflict of ltwru is jeongyeon being concerned that this would nvr work out because nayeon is an aspiring ACTRESS! public figure! and people will talk about them and it will truly affect her life forever and that is why jy can't pursue it at all. not because they're "not allowed to date" but because she doesn't want that active pursuit of romance at all to lead to such a terrible thing. i have to stop here
ultimately i think there's really something about knowing someone and truly being understood. [5] [parks and rec meme voice] IT'S ABOUT THE HISTORY. and it's ironic that these pairings also have so much to hide from each other. [oh my girl nonstop voice] there’s nothing we don’t know about each other / there’s no secrets between us too / we’ve seen everything / but I can’t ever tell you how I feel! because it also means either 1) the other person has never considered the subject as an option which is why it comes completely out of left field if they confess or 2) the other person CAN TELL because they literally know the subject that well.... i don't think pam knew (but partially b/c jim lied and said that he used to have a crush on her but it was over LOL) and anne absolutely knew about it and jo absolutely knew. (and jeongyeon knew but she was in severe denial too!)
footnotes:
[1] this is strictly based on the anne of green gables book series (#1-8) and not the anne with an e tv show, even though they overlap at the beginning. when i mention little women later that's based on greta gerwig's movie because i haven't read the books asdjkfkldlf
[2] this doesn't even mention the fact that anne hated gilbert when they first met because he teased her but he was otherwise a really nice person etc and she decided to be petty and hate him for like 5 years even after he saved her life or anyways helped her out of a very dangerous situation. but like anne was 11 at the time and i still kind of hate the scene where they meet because too many people irl say all that about "boy pulls on the girl's pigtails because he likes her" and it's so annoying. aogg is sort of tropey in certain ways but like i said it has a lot of depth so i can't explain it all in this type of essay without making it look bad TT anne is heroine of my heart, her pettiness, imaginative head, studious and loyal heart and MISGUIDED IDEALS make her so relatable to me. i just don't want these things to reflect back on portrayal of women because i care very much about the impacts of stereotyping t____t
[3] both anne/gilbert and jim/pam continue on long after they get together, and they're less interesting to me once the major conflict of all that is over, but something else that gets me about both of them is the idea of uprooting your lives and the place where you've lived for a long time in order to start anew with your family. it's absolutely not something i can relate to right now because i haven't left home yet but my family moved a lot in my youth leaving everyone else behind, and even if i end up moving for work i think i'll always be afraid of what i will lose doing that. but i think these are deep loves that make you feel like they're gaining so much more than what they lost.
[4] i cried for so long reading this for the first time. i cried rereading the anne books last march, i don't think i cried watching the jim/pam parts of the office or little women, but i probably cried a lot more for ltwru. and i wrote that obnoxiously long comment on the fic so if sam sees that i have written another essay she will simply laugh forever
[5] this is all highly related to this (access-locked) post re: what the relationship tropes i like says about me
other favorite movie/tv/book pairings that aren't that relevant but i still want 2 shout out:
- kaz/inej - six of crows
- kumail/emily - the big sick
- flynn/rapunzel - tangled
- not as much the pairing in clueless as much as the heroine!! which of course reflects back on the original work (emma)